Inspired by the Summer Olympics, I led the "Punctuation Games" for a client yesterday. The sophisticated group took away gold, silver, and bronze medals for their wins in "100-Word Hyphen," "Apostrophe Toss," "Error-Ringing," and a final relay race in which they inserted commas, semicolons, hyphens, and apostrophes.
Apostrophe Toss raised the most questions. Here's one controversial sentence involving the use of the apostrophe:
The position requires at least five years experience in web site development.
The sentence needed to be tossed into the "s apostrophe" basket because the correct rendering is "five years' experience."
But why use the apostrophe? Because years is a possessive form.
Examples:
The opinion of the group is the group's opinion.
The reputation of the man is the man's reputation.
The rivalry of the teams is the teams' rivalry.
The pay of a week is a week's pay.
The sabbatical of a year is a year's sabbatical.
The experience of five years is five years' experience.
Many people don't like the "years' experience" construction, and I don't blame them. It's odd. But it is also correct.
If you don't want to use phrases such as "a week's pay" and "five years' experience" because they seem odd or awkward, add the word of, like these correct examples:
He is owed a week of pay.
The job requires five years of experience.
In October he will begin a year of sabbatical.
But if you are happy using "a year's time" and "two weeks' notice," keep on using them confidently. Every punctuation guide on my bookshelf promotes that usage as correct.
For more on the topic of apostrophes and possessive forms, read these past blog posts:
Apostrophe Help Please!
More Apostrophe Help!
A Tip on Apostrophes
Its? It's? Or Its'?
I will write again in a few days' time!
Lynn
Syntax Training
Thank you, thank you, thank you for pointing this out so clearly!
It is definitely one of my pet peeves - and no one seems to be able to get it right. I've read many a CV from a writer or editor claiming to have "ten years experience". Ouch.
Posted by: Clare Lynch | August 18, 2008 at 10:37 AM
Clare, you are welcome! When you are editing us Yanks, though, be sure to let us keep the period (full stop) inside the closing quotation marks!
Posted by: Lynn | August 24, 2008 at 11:06 PM
Two nations separated by a common language . . .
I wonder what is the correct blogging etiquette? Should one Americanise spelling and punctuation when commenting on a US blog, and Anglicise when commenting on a UK blog?
Have I just committed more faux pas?
Posted by: Clare Lynch | August 25, 2008 at 03:30 AM
Good questions, Clare. Using your standard spelling gives readers immediate clues about your nationality. I'd say that's normally a good thing.
At the same time, I find myself sometimes avoiding "Hi" when I write to "English" speakers. I remember being scorned at Anne Hathaway's cottage when I visited in college. The ticket-taker ridiculed my "Hi" as a stupid American greeting. Is it time to forget about him?
Posted by: Lynn | August 26, 2008 at 08:01 AM
Ouch - that's terrible! Let me apologise on his behalf! I do hope the English tourist industry has improved since then - otherwise our economy really is doomed.
For what it's worth, I do think it's absolutely fine to use "Hi" in emails to the English - I do it all the time and don't know anyone who doesn't. That said, most of the UK-based Americans who have attended my courses find the English email style much more formal. I suspect their UK colleagues are just more prone to bad corporatese . . .
Posted by: Clare Lynch | August 26, 2008 at 08:31 AM
Hi, Clare! Thanks for relieving my fear of using that simple greeting. It's also good to know about the UK's more formal style or corporatese.
I appreciate your comments.
Posted by: Lynn | August 28, 2008 at 01:36 PM
I'm a court reporter, and I'm reading through a transcript and had a question regarding
30 year's experience or 30 years' experience.
Thanks for the answer!
Posted by: Amy | June 02, 2010 at 08:25 PM
This is correct:
30 years' experience
Lynn
Posted by: Lynn Gaertner-Johnston | June 06, 2010 at 08:24 AM
Thank you so much, you've answered my question precisely!
Posted by: Malcolm | January 05, 2011 at 07:31 AM
Terrific! You are very welcome.
Lynn
Posted by: Lynn Gaertner-Johnston | January 05, 2011 at 09:17 AM
Your advice seems wrong to me. How can years accumulate experience? The correct construction appears, to me, to be: five years experience. The years are not the subject of the clause. Years here if the plural form of year and not some semantically improbable possessive.
Posted by: Percy | July 20, 2011 at 05:59 AM
Hi, Percy. My advice may seem wrong, but it is not. Please review the post above again. If you are still in doubt, you may wish to consult a style guide.
Lynn
Posted by: Lynn Gaertner-Johnston | July 21, 2011 at 09:20 AM
My god, thank you so much! Microsoft Word corrected the grammar to what you just said, but indeed to me it just looked so wrong!
Anyway, good thing for my covering letter.
Thanks again.
Posted by: snowdogau | August 23, 2011 at 08:38 PM
I have seen this construction recently, disagreed with it, looked it up myself on several web sites (as did the person who asked me about it) and I STILL disagree, even if this is supposed to be the new correct usage according to so many so-called experts. As Percy remarks, the experience does not belong to the years, it belongs to the person who has it. Style guides frequently change according to general usage, but just because a lot of people say something, does not make it grammatically correct. Style guide be damned. The World English Dictionary at Dictionary.com, as its (possessive without an apostrophe) third definition of the preposition "of", "used after words or phrases expressing quantities: a pint of milk." This is the use being discussed here. Would you really write "a pint's milk?" Or more to the point, "two pints' milk?"
Posted by: Meghan Lancaster, proofreader | September 07, 2011 at 04:02 PM
Hi, Meghan. This is not a new rule we are discussing. It is covered in one of my reference books, "Handbook of Business English," which was published in 1914. I started teaching this stuff in 1983, and the rule has never even wavered from that time until now, according to all my style guides.
As a proofreader, you risk your livelihood and your clients' reputation if you follow the mantra "Style guide be damned."
As for the milk examples, they do not make sense to me with or without apostrophes. I do not believe they support your point.
I urge you to accept this rule despite your dislike for it. I myself apply several rules I dislike. I do it because they are standards, and I would not succeed professionally if I disregarded them.
Best wishes,
Lynn
Posted by: Lynn Gaertner-Johnston | September 07, 2011 at 04:22 PM
Thanks Lynn,
I was confused with Years' or Year's or Years
Thanks I will go with "Years of experience"
Posted by: Gaurav | September 24, 2011 at 04:15 PM
Hi, Gaurav. Yes, "years of experience" works well.
Lynn
Posted by: Lynn Gaertner-Johnston | September 25, 2011 at 02:07 PM
The confusion seems to be that when one says "years of experience" one actually means years WORTH of experience. The common usage is therefore a contraction; this renders the correct usage to be without an apostrophe. The age of this rule does not make it more correct. It is just a wrong that has been repeated without proper examination.
Posted by: percy | February 05, 2012 at 07:29 PM
Hello, Percy. It is not clear to me what you are describing as wrong.
The examples of correct usage I gave above are all supported by respected, current style guides.
Lynn
Posted by: Lynn Gaertner-Johnston | February 09, 2012 at 10:57 PM